"I'll be working to promote mutual understanding"

Willem, you've been on our SB for nine years. How do you look back on that time?

Van Waveren: "As very enjoyable. I've had a very good working relationship with the other SB members. It's just a shame that, because of the pandemic, we've had to halt face-to-face meetings. I would have liked to have a drink with everyone and say goodbye properly. Thinking back about the last nine years, I'm proud to have contributed to some standout developments. First, the growing role of SIDN Labs, which is increasingly active at the cutting edge of progress on the security and reliability of the internet's infrastructure. Then, of course, there was the creation of SIDN Fund, and the restructuring of SIDN's senior management, with the arrival of a CFO alongside CEO Roelof Meijer. The purchase and subsequent sale of Connectis is also something that I look back on with satisfaction. The acquisition was in line with the pioneering role that SIDN can play in relation to ICT services with social value. Being able to step back again when the market takes up the reins is admirable."

Why did the RA propose each of you for the SB?

Van Waveren: "Ten years ago, I was involved with creation of the Registrars' Association (RA). At the time, relations between SIDN and the registrars were strained and dialogue had stopped. That wasn't in anyone's interest. After all, the registrars are key stakeholders for SIDN. In that period, I acted as something of a mediator, helping the two sides to develop a better dialogue. That resulted in formation of the RA. The constitution says that the RA is allowed to propose one SB member. And the RA decided on me, although my expertise is mainly in governance. I don't have particular knowledge of registrars' commercial interests. Nevertheless, I have always tried to consider the registrars' interests and I've done my best to make sure that the SB took those interests into account."

Van Leeuwen: "Ultimately, of course, the RA wants someone on the SB who understands the business. I established the web hosting firm Argeweb eighteen years ago. I was also involved with the industry association ISPConnect, so I've got plenty of personal experience as a registrar. Although I've been doing other things for a while now, I think that I still understand what's happening in the industry. And I've been consistently critical of SIDN, certainly concerning all the things that they do besides operating the .nl domain."

Does being proposed by the RA mean that you speak for the registrars on the SB?

Van Waveren: "No, that's a common misconception. A Supervisory Board member has a responsibility to act without interference or consultation. You have to consider the interests of all stakeholders, which in SIDN's case means not only the registrars. In my nine years on the SB, I've always been able to do that, I feel. I've never felt pressurised."

Van Leeuwen: "This is the first supervisory post I've held. So I need to find my feet in the role. But I shall certainly be voicing my own opinions. I may be more inclined to think about the registrars, but I'm certainly not going to be the registrars' mouthpiece. It's important that SIDN listens to the registrars, but that doesn't mean that SIDN always has to do what the registrars want. If SIDN had done that in the past, some important initiatives by SIDN Labs might never have happened."

How does each of you see relations between SIDN and the registrars?

Van Waveren: "Generally speaking, I think we're often inclined to view relations too negatively. The RA and SIDN work really well together in many areas. The Registrar Scorecard is a big success. SIDN also communicates very well with the registrars; the Executive Board and the RA have regular dialogue. However, the very diverse nature of the registrar community can be challenging. And there's no denying that there are differences of opinion on certain topics. Interests don't always coincide. So you sometimes get two different perspectives on the same set of facts."

Van Leeuwen: "There is certainly a difficulty. Registrars sometimes think that SIDN exists purely to serve them. Whereas, when I was a registrar, I sometimes had the feeling that SIDN regarded registrars as simply a channel for contact with end users. Probably the reality is something in between. It would be good if each side were more sympathetic to the other's position. I'll be working to promote mutual understanding, anyway."

What does each of you see as the main challenges in the years ahead?

Van Leeuwen: "I think that the biggest challenge for SIDN is going to be deciding what they should and shouldn't be doing. I sometimes feel that SIDN is a little too opportunistic in its approach. There are enough opportunities out there, but sometimes it's better to let one pass. SIDN is a non-profit foundation, not a commercial enterprise. However, I do think that there are some market initiatives that it's appropriate for SIDN to get involved with or support financially as part of its commitment to problem-free, opportunity-rich digital living."

Van Waveren: "I agree with Gerben that choosing what activities to take on will be a challenge. However, I believe that SIDN should be looking at profit-generating projects. For example, SIDN Fund often rejects projects on the grounds that they're commercially motivated. Including a lot of projects proposed by registrars. Many of those projects have real social value, and I think they deserve support. Of course, I'm not suggesting that SIDN should become a commercial company or adopt a strategy of acquisition. But maybe it could do things like take a minority stake in order to accelerate a worthwhile development. I'd also like to see SIDN be more decisive. That would require a culture change. It would mean going from being a conservation-focused organisation, a point of trust, to being an organisation that's able to respond quickly to developments."

How do you see the future?

Van Waveren: "I've recently turned seventy-five. But I'm much too young to be doing nothing. I'm still actively involved with a group of industrial bakeries. I plan to keep that up for a few years yet."

Van Leeuwen: "I did my first SB meeting this month. There was a lot on the agenda, including IRMA, for example. I think that there are certainly interesting times ahead."